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#45873 - 12/23/05 08:04 PM
Re: Intelligent design debate
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reclaimed
Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 129
Loc: ignorant bliss
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And for those that don't want to believe that ID is associated with God, then you must believe that ID was done by the space aliens. So for those that believe in the postulation of Intelligent Design, which is it, God or the space aliens?
_________________________
Sometimes I have to ask.... "Why do I bother?"
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#45874 - 12/23/05 08:20 PM
Re: Intelligent design debate
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Prime Rib
Registered: 01/28/03
Posts: 1460
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Quote:
village_idiot said:
And for those that don't want to believe that ID is associated with God, then you must believe that ID was done by the space aliens. So for those that believe in the postulation of Intelligent Design, which is it, God or the space aliens?
And there lies the problem
Intelligence Design is not associated with God it’s associated with the idea of a God or Gods!!
An idea that simply say’s the creation of life is so complicated there must have been a supreme power responsible for its existence.
That’s It!!
So what is so horrible about educating young people about religions that exist outside of these school walls!! Why is it so important to hide the existence of religion from today’s students?
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#45875 - 12/23/05 09:48 PM
Re: Intelligent design debate
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Prime Rib
Registered: 12/02/00
Posts: 10659
Loc: Between Mrs. MG's legs w/ came...
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Quote:
brooklyn said:
Quote:
village_idiot said:
And for those that don't want to believe that ID is associated with God, then you must believe that ID was done by the space aliens. So for those that believe in the postulation of Intelligent Design, which is it, God or the space aliens?
And there lies the problem
Intelligence Design is not associated with God it’s associated with the idea of a God or Gods!!
An idea that simply say’s the creation of life is so complicated there must have been a supreme power responsible for its existence.
That’s It!!
So what is so horrible about educating young people about religions that exist outside of these school walls!! Why is it so important to hide the existence of religion from today’s students?
Well how about it doesn't have any basis in science, let alone scientific fact.
I can easily argue that the creation of life is so complicated no
being , god, or whatever could have designed it. It could ONLY
happen as a result of the natural in nature refered to as
evolution.
Now if you want to argue that some entity planted us here as
a 5th grade scientific experiment and we've contnued to evolve
since then....why now that's interesting! And if ID is in your
belief plausible, then why not teach my 5th grade science
experiment theory?
Simple, there is no scientifc basis to believe we are the
result of some 5th grade scientific experiement.
Science classes teach science and ID isn't science. Yes it is
a theory, but it isn't science.
I still think the simple solution is to teach both to all children,
in all schools public and private.
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#45876 - 12/24/05 10:14 AM
Re: Intelligent design debate
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Prime Rib
Registered: 01/28/03
Posts: 1460
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Dover Court Establishes State Materialism
Shawnee Mission Kansas. The twisted decision of the court in Dover today effectively establishes a state sponsored
ideology that is fundamental to non-theistic religions and religious beliefs. By outlawing the inference of design that arises
from observation and analysis, the court has caused the state to endorse materialism and the various religions it supports.
Thus the court actually inserted a religious bias into science, while purporting to remove one.
The incorrect assumption implicit in the decision is that there is only one kind of “religion” - the kind that subscribes to
God. In fact religion includes the other kinds, those that reject any God that might intervene in the natural world –
Atheism, Agnosticism, Secular Humanism, etc. The Court’s second error was to ignore the obvious: any explanation of
origins will unavoidably favor one kind of religion over another.
For Judge Jones “religion” seems to be a term that describes only one particular kind of religion - Christianity. Although
the Judge was quick to note the theistic friendly implications of an intelligent cause for life, his opinion omits any
discussion of the religious implications of evolution and the acknowledged naturalistic/materialistic philosophy which has
protected it from scientific criticism.
The court also failed to discuss the fact that the inference of design derives from an observation and analysis of the data, not
from a religious text. Nor does he discuss or ask, from whence does a counter-intuitive inference of “no-design” arise?
From the data or from a philosophy? He makes it clear that it derives from a philosophy: “methodological naturalism.”
Which hypothesis is truly inferential and scientific? Which idea arises from the data and which from philosophy?
Evolution, and the naturalism which effectively shields it from scientific criticism, is key to all of the major non-theistic
religions and belief systems. The Dover opinion censors scientific data that is friendly to one set of religious beliefs in favor
of data that supports competing and antagonistic belief systems. For the Court, it is OK for the state to put into the minds of
impressionable students evidence that promotes a materialistic and non-theistic world view while censoring contradictory
evidence that supports a theistic one. How can teaching only one side of this scientific controversy be secular, neutral and
non-ideological?
A ruling that effectively insulates evolution from scientific criticism actually converts it into an ideology. It takes the theory
out of the realm of science and makes it a religion in and of itself. Unfortunately, the Court fails to recognize that the only
way for the state to deal with the unavoidable religious problem entailed by any discussion of “Where do we come from?” is
to objectively provide students with relevant scientific information on both sides of that controversy. As soon as the state
takes sides in that discussion it steps over the wall.
Today, the court in Dover caused the state to take sides in that religiously charged discussion. Today, the court in Dover
instituted state sponsorship of materialism.
The 139 page opinion shows a remarkable lack of understanding of other issues critical to the decision. Rather than seek a
true understanding of evolution, intelligent design, the scientific method and methodological naturalism, the court accepted
hook, line and sinker the propaganda of true “Fundamentalists,” who are as passionate about their “Fundamentalism” as
those of the Dover Board. The court ignored key evidence that challenges evolution’s claim that life is not designed. It
called a strike when the ball hit the dirt six feet in front of the batter.
True institutional scientific objectivity is the only antidote to this religious problem. There is no issue in science that cries
out more for competing hypotheses than highly subjective “historical narratives” about our origins. From where we come is
inseparable from where we go. So long as only one answer to this question is allowed the story will necessarily be religious.
We need the competition to make the explanations truly scientific.
The decision in Dover today took evolution out of science and made it a religion. We have confidence that this truth will
eventually emerge and be corrected.</font>
http://www.intelligentdesignnetwork.org/Press%20Release%20122105%20final%20.pdf
http://www.intelligentdesignnetwork.org/
http://www.intelligentdesignnetwork.org/Flyer2p.PDF
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